Thomas Friedman and Fareed Zakaria: Author One-to-One

Fareed Zakaria: Your book is about two things, the climate crisis and also about an American crisis. Why do you link the two? 

Thomas Friedman: You're absolutely right--it is about two things. The book says, America has a problem and the world has a problem. The world's problem is that it's getting hot, flat and crowded and that convergence--that perfect storm--is driving a lot of negative trends. America's problem is that we've lost our way--we've lost our groove as a country. And the basic argument of the book is that we can solve our problem by taking the lead in solving the world's problem.

Zakaria: Explain what you mean by 'hot, flat and crowded.'

Friedman: There is a convergence of basically three large forces: one is global warming, which has been going on at a very slow pace since the industrial revolution; the second--what I call the flattening of the world--is a metaphor for the rise of middle-class citizens, from China to India to Brazil to Russia to Eastern Europe, who are beginning to consume like Americans. That's a blessing in so many ways--it's a blessing for global stability and for global growth. But it has enormous resource complications, if all these people--whom you've written about in your book, The Post American World--begin to consume like Americans. And lastly, global population growth simply refers to the steady growth of population in general, but at the same time the growth of more and more people able to live this middle-class lifestyle. Between now and 2020, the world's going to add another billion people. And their resource demands--at every level--are going to be enormous. I tell the story in the book how, if we give each one of the next billion people on the planet just one sixty-watt incandescent light bulb, what it will mean: the answer is that it will require about 20 new 500-megawatt coal-burning power plants. That's so they can each turn on just one light bulb!

Zakaria: In my book I talk about the 'rise of the rest' and about the reality of how this rise of new powerful economic nations is completely changing the way the world works. Most everyone's efforts have been devoted to Kyoto-like solutions, with the idea of getting western countries to reduce their carbon dioxide emissions. But I grew to realize that the West was a sideshow. India and China will build hundreds of coal-fire power plants in the next ten years and the combined carbon dioxide emissions of those new plants alone are five times larger than the savings mandated by the Kyoto accords. What do you do with the Indias and Chinas of the world?

Friedman: I think there are two approaches. There has to be more understanding of the basic unfairness they feel. They feel like we sat down, had the hors d'oeuvres, ate the entrée, pretty much finished off the dessert, invited them for tea and coffee and then said, 'Let's split the bill.' So I understand the big sense of unfairness--they feel that now that they have a chance to grow and reach with large numbers a whole new standard of living, we're basically telling them, 'Your growth, and all the emissions it would add, is threatening the world's climate.' At the same time, what I say to them--what I said to young Chinese most recently when I was just in China is this: Every time I come to China, young Chinese say to me, 'Mr. Friedman, your country grew dirty for 150 years. Now it's our turn.' And I say to them, 'Yes, you're absolutely right, it's your turn. Grow as dirty as you want. Take your time. Because I think we probably just need about five years to invent all the new clean power technologies you're going to need as you choke to death, and we're going to come and sell them to you. And we're going to clean your clock in the next great global industry. So please, take your time. If you want to give us a five-year lead in the next great global industry, I will take five. If you want to give us ten, that would be even better. In other words, I know this is unfair, but I am here to tell you that in a world that's hot, flat and crowded, ET--energy technology--is going to be as big an industry as IT--information technology. Maybe even bigger. And who claims that industry--whose country and whose companies dominate that industry--I think is going to enjoy more national security, more economic security, more economic growth, a healthier population, and greater global respect, for that matter, as well. So you can sit back and say, it's not fair that we have to compete in this new industry, that we should get to grow dirty for a while, or you can do what you did in telecommunications, and that is try to leap-frog us. And that's really what I'm saying to them: this is a great economic opportunity. The game is still open. I want my country to win it--I'm not sure it will.

Zakaria: I'm struck by the point you make about energy technology. In my book I'm pretty optimistic about the United States. But the one area where I'm worried is actually ET. We do fantastically in biotech, we're doing fantastically in nanotechnology. But none of these new technologies have the kind of system-wide effect that information technology did. Energy does. If you want to find the next technological revolution you need to find an industry that transforms everything you do. Biotechnology affects one critical aspect of your day-to-day life, health, but not all of it. But energy--the consumption of energy--affects every human activity in the modern world. Now, my fear is that, of all the industries in the future, that's the one where we're not ahead of the pack. Are we going to run second in this race?

Friedman: Well, I want to ask you that, Fareed. Why do you think we haven't led this industry, which itself has huge technological implications? We have all the secret sauce, all the technological prowess, to lead this industry. Why do you think this is the one area--and it's enormous, it's actually going to dwarf all the others--where we haven't been at the real cutting edge?



Continue reading the Q&A between Thomas Friedman and Fareed Zakaria

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Average Rating:

Rating: - * Friedman's inspiring green movement ... Thomas L. Friedman's new book, "Hot, Flat, and Crowded" is an excellent read for every one interested in the future of planet Earth. Friedman draws connections between different topics which make one realize the need to protect this wonderful resource, Earth, which we inhabit. "Hot" is in reference to global warming. "Flat" implies how the world is becoming smaller; primarily the internet and transportation. "Crowded" refers to human over population of the earth. Friedman shows the strong connection between technology and the progression of the human race. Throughout time, there has always been enough resources to foster the development of new technologies. However, due to the over population of this planet, and the demands of that population, our resources are dwindling. Friedman's philosophy insists that when we create new products, we intend for them to be recycled therefore reducing the need for the consumption of our natural resources for every new product. We need to act NOW to protect our home so future generations can appreciate what we had the opportunity to enjoy, mother earth. Rating: - * Thomas Friedman ties globalization and the environment together perfectly ... Following The Lexus and the Olive Tree and The World is Flat, this new volume from the witty and articulate pen of Thomas Friedman brings us up to date on the state of inter-connectedness of the entire world. So many of the world's poor are rising to the point of wanting to become "Americans" and with it consume resources at the same rate as Americans. Friedman points toward possible solutions to this problem. Excellent book, particularly in this time of world economic and environmental crisis. Rating: - * Hot on Hot ... This is another excellent book by Thomas Friedman. I was interested in finding out how he would tie together hot and crowed with flat. I had read his book about the flat world. I found this book provided an excellent analysis of how global warming and the increased world population interact and how they both interact with the flat world. I think it is a book that every concerned citizen should read. Although all will not agree with his arguments, they need to be addressed. Every reader will come away with some increase in knowledge on these subjects. Rating: - * Petro Politics and Alternatives ... This book extensively deals with the science and politics of energy. It describes the doomsday scenarios of staying with the current energy sources and the urgent need to go towards the alternate energies. It is well known that oil price determines the politics of energy. Friedman describes in detail how the oil prices enrich the petro dictators in the OPEC countries and how it is funding the terrorist activities thru the Islamic fundamentalist schools in Pakistan. How Saudi Arabia is influencing the culture in the middle east thru its petro dollars. How the low oil prices enfeebles the power of the dictators while higher price makes them wag their tails. The role played by the former Saudi oil minister Ahmed Zaki Yamani in 1985 to stop protecting the oil prices and thereby caused the fall of Soviet Union. It is a surprising conclusion that the drastic drop in oil prices led to the collapse of Soviet Union. Yamani strategized that the oil prices should not increase too much in a short period of time. Doing so will cause innovations in West in the areas of alternative energy. To bolster his point, Yamani says that the stone age did not end because the world ran out of stones, but because bronze and iron came into use. Friedman portrays in detail about how the support for energy efficiency and alternative sources of energy in US has vacillated from time to time. Precious opportunities were squandered to build upon this strategy. Regan rolled back the average auto mileage from 27.5 to 26 and got the solar panels removed from top of the white house, in guise of giving the auto and oil Industries a boost. Clinton raised the efficiency of appliances from 10 to 13, only to be rolled back by Bush to 12. Which was later rolled back by the Courts to 12, but precious time was lost in the meantime. The utilities spend 0.15% of their earnings on R&D. GE spends very little on innovations in the energy sector. Mainly because there is no incentive to do so. As soon as the prices at the pump come down, America forgets about the past crisis. The energy companies truly care about the floor of the oil price, not the ceiling. He cites the story of the largest Solar panel company inUS, First Solar. It tottered on the brink of bankruptcy. The company survives today because of a major German market for solar panels. There is a big need to invest in alternative sources of energies. To lower the damage caused by carbon dioxide emissions and the consequent global warming. He maintains that the scientific evidence is beyond any doubt that the warming is being caused by our excessive fossil fuel consumption. It cannot be explained by any of the natural cycles of Earth or the Sun. When Oceans are warmed up, they release the disolved carbon dioxide. When rain forests are chopped down, it results in the same effect. This results in a positive feedback loop for more warming. A powerful quotation "Destroying a rain forest and other species rich ecosystems for profit is like burning all the paintings of the Louvre to cook dinner". Another one "The biodiversity of the planet is a uniquely valuable library that we have been steadily burning down-one wing at a time-before we even cataloged all the books, let alone read them". Along with the clean sources, we also need a smart electric grid. The current grid is a dumb grid, a hotch potch of regional grids built without the big picture in mind. A smart grid will interact with the sensors in a smart home and make efficient usage of power. A smart grid will also raise the price of power at peak times and lower it during off peak times. The third part of the three pronged strategy is conservation of energy. We need Japan's obsession with conservation which stems from an acute sense of insecurity due to most of its imports coming from middle east. A word of caution about alternate fuels. Corn based ethanol has been politically appealing recently, but does no good in the long run. Due to the spike in food prices it causes, along with more green house gases. He further quotes that EU has declared that the bio for biofuels should not come from tropical forests, nature reserves, wetlands, or grasslands with high biodiversity. It was revealing to me as to why the hybrids give significantly more mileage. It is mainly because the idling engine consumes 20-30 times more fuel than when it is moving. I had my own doubts about plug-in hybrids, which got cleared by this book. It says that although the plug-in hybrids draw power from an outlet, it is still more efficient to generate power at a remote coal plant than in a car engine. Europe has been seeing the writing on the wall more clearly. Iceland relies on hydro ad geothermal energy. Denmark has significant wind energy, Germany has solar energy, and France has nuclear energy. Even Australia, which initially did not sign the Kyoto protocol, did so when Kevin Rudd won the election by making environmentalism as a major election issue. There have been pockets of hope in US. For example, in 2007, Mayor Bloomberg, the most environmentally conscientious mayors in America, passed a law requiring all cabs in New York City to be hybrids in the next five years. The state of California has been in forefront of conservation and alternate fuels. Its per capita energy consumption has remained flat in the last 40 years, the rest of the country has more than doubled. Hopefully, the incoming new administration will take cues ! Rating: - * Paints the picture perfectly ... Friedman hits the nail on the head. He asks the pertinent question: what kind of world do you want to live in? One where we continue our status quo with heads firmly buried in the sand to ignore all the cultural, social, economic, and environmental problems, only to keep applying bandaids as the wounds get worse? Or one where we wake up, open our eyes to the problems facing us, and get real? He slaps us across the face with the facts and figures as well as his exploration of those things we don't normally think about, like how little our solar industry can do to offset the unchecked growth in places like Dubai and parts of China. And then he tells us what to do to make things better and leave the world a better place for our children. I wonder what kind of world we'll have in 40 years if everyone were to read this book. And then I think of what kind of world we'll have in 40 years if Friedman hadn't written this book. He is a world changer, and I appreciate and respect him for it.